12/16/14 12/16/14 . [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica this is democracy now. >> because the legal justification for torture required the presence of psychologists and psychiatrists and physicians in order to allow the torture to go forward according to the justice department's rules at the time, it was necessary for health professionals to be part of the bush administration torture program. >> psychologists and torture. as a psychologist hired by the cia admits he waterboarded khalid sheikh mohammed at a black site, we look at

allegations the american psychological association, the largest association of psychologists in the world, secretly colluded with the cia in the torture program. then we speak to former senator mike gravel. >> the people must know the full story of what has occurred over the past 20 years within their government. the story is a terrible one. it is replete with duplicity against the public and public officials. i know of nothing in our history to equal it for extensive failure and extensive loss in all aspects of the term. >> in 1971, alaska senator mike gravel entered 4000 pages of the classified pentagon papers into the congressional record. now he's urging outgoing senator mark udall of colorado to make

the full sinnot intelligence committees torture report public. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. more than 100 people have been killed in pakistan after taliban gunmen attacked a military-run school in peshawar. the death toll has reached 126, with at least 84 of the dead believed to be children. the taliban has said it targeted the children of military families in retaliation for the pakistani military's offensive against the taliban in north waziristan. since june, at the urging of the united states, pakistan has waged a massive offensive in the region, which coincided with the resumption of u.s. drone strikes. in sydney, australia, two hostages and the gunman have been killed after police stormed a downtown cafe and chocolate shop to end a standoff that lasted over 16 hours.

the gunman has been identified as an iranian refugee named man haron monis, who was out on bail on charges including sexual assault and being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife. australian prime minister tony abbott said he had a lengthy criminal record. >> what we do know is the perpetrator was well known to state and commonwealth authorities. he had a long history of violent crime. infatuation with extremism and mentally instability. >> man haron monis opposed australia's role in the u.s.-led war in afghanistan, and had also been charged with sending harassing letters to the families of dead australian soldiers. the obama administration faces a deadline today to decide whether it will attempt to force "new york times" investigative reporter james risen to reveal his source. in one of the most significant press freedom cases in decades, risen has vowed not to testify at the trial of jeffrey

sterling, who is accused of giving him classified information that revealed a botched cia plot to disrupt iran's nuclear program. the justice department has indicated it may stop trying to compel risen to reveal his source, but still subpoena him testify at sterling's trial. if he refuses to testify, risen could still face jail time. meanwhile, the obama administration may try to force another journalist to testify in another trial over bombings by al qaeda. preet bharara, the u.s. attorney in manhattan, has asked attorney general eric holder to approve a subpoena of "60 minutes" producer robert bonin over his interactions with al qaeda's press office during a bid to interview osama bin laden in 1998. the supreme court has ruled police officers can conduct illegal traffic stops based on wrongful interpretations of the law. the case involved a man who was pulled over in north carolina for having a broken tail light.

even though a single broken taillight is not a violation, in north carolina. police searched the man's car and found cocaine, resulting in a cocaine-trafficking conviction. in an 8-1 decision, the court upheld the conviction, saying the officer's mistake was "reasonable." in a lone dissent, justice sonia sotomayor wrote -- "one wonders how a citizen seeking to be law-abiding and to structure his or her behavior to avoid these invasive, frightening, and humiliating encounters could do so." the ruling comes amid mass protests over unpunished police killings of unarmed african americans. in oakland, california, monday, at least 25 people were arrested as protesters shut down entrances to the oakland police department by chaining themselves to the doors and locking their arms together at a nearby intersection. one activist climbed a flagpole and raised a banner showing the images of african americans killed by police.

more professional athletes have added their voices to movement against police violence. on sunday, cleveland browns football player andrew hawkins wore a shirt during pre-game warm-ups which read, "justice for tamir rice and john crawford." both crawford and 12-year-old tamir rice were killed by police in ohio while holding toy guns. cleveland's police union demanded an apology, calling hawkins' protest "pathetic" and saying he should "stick to playing football." but the cleveland browns team refused to apologize, saying -- hawkins defended his action monday, saying he was thinking of his two-year-old son. >> the number one reason for me wearing the t-shirt was the thought of what happened to tami r rice happening to my little in, scares the living hell

out of me. and my heart was broken for the parents of tamir and john they had toowing live that nightmare of a reality. >> congress, meanwhile, has quietly passed legislation requiring states to report the number of people killed by police. the move follows a report by the "wall street journal" which found police killings are virtually impossible to track, with hundreds of cases missing from the fbi's tally. the reporting requirement was previously passed in 2000 but expired in 2006. relatives of victims killed in the massacre at sandy hook elementary school have filed a lawsuit against the maker of the gun used to carry out the shootings. the lawsuit accuses bushmaster of wrongfully selling its ar-15 rifle to civilians when it's designed for military uses, like penetrating steel helmets. the lawsuit comes two years and a day after the shooting, which killed 26 educators and children.

since then, according to mother jones, school shootings have occurred every five weeks on average in the united states. in pennsylvania, police are searching for an iraq war veteran suspected of killing six people in a shooting spree that spanned three towns. bradley william stone remains at large after police say he killed his ex-wife and five of her relatives. the senate has overcome opposition from the gun lobby to confirm president obama's pick for surgeon general. vivek murthy was tapped by obama over a year ago but the national rifle association held up his confirmation because he had called guns a health care issue. at age 37, vivek murthy is the youngest surgeon general and the first of indian-american descent. in a victory for reproductive rights the supreme court has let , stand a lower court decision blocking an arizona law which restricted the use of the pill form of abortion.

the law required the use of an outdated and cumbersome protocol for the medication mifepristone. the lower court found the law imposed an "undue restriction" on abortion. in the philippines, prosecutors have charged a u.s. marine with murdering a transgender woman in a case that has renewed anger over the presence of u.s. troops. joseph scott pemberton is accused of strangling and drowning jennifer laude in a hotel toilet after discovering she was transgender. under the terms of a u.s.-philippines deal called the visiting forces agreement, pemberton will remain in u.s. custody in the philippines. in mexico, the federalgovernment is facing new questions about its role in the disappearance of 43 students in the state of guerrero. a report by the mexican news magazine proceso has found federal police participated in the attack, which the government has blamed on local police and a drug gang. the report coincided with a crackdown by federal police who reportedly attacked students and families of the disappeared as they organized a concert in

chilpancingo, the capital of guerrero state. more than 20 people were injured in the clashes including a journalist with the associated press. pedro lopez, a colleague of the missing students, said the attack was arbitrary. >> what to lace was simply arbitrary compared to other events that have taken place. there wasn't any disturbance or social demonstration going on, but rather a completely cultural activity in which we were protecting the area, guarding the fence that had been put in place for the event. >> and a new immigrant detention center due to be the largest in the country has opened in dilley, texas. the facility will imprison mostly women and children from central america. it is operated by the private company corrections corporation of america which has previously been sued for mistreating immigrant children in its custody. homeland security secretary jeh johnson has touted the new facility as a deterrent to immigrants fleeing violence and poverty at home.

and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. a retired air force psychologist who has been identified as the architect of the cia's torture program has confirmed for the first time he personally waterboarded khalid sheikh mohammed. he told vice news -- "yes, i waterboarded ksm. i was part of a larger team that waterboarded a small number of detainees." mitchell also waterboarded abu zubaydah at a secret cia black site in thailand. mitchell was hired to help create the interrogation program along with his partner, bruce jessen, another psychologist. the senate report says mitchell and jessen were paid $81 million to help design the cia's torture methods, including some of the most abusive tactics. the pair had no prior experience in interrogation. >> defending his role last week,

james mitchell said the abuse of prisoners is preferable to the obama administration's ongoing drone war that claims civilian lives. he was speaking to "vice news." completelyt seems isensible that slappingksm bad, but sending a hellfire missile into our families picnic and killing all the children and killing granny and killing everyone is ok for a lot of rings -- reasons. one of the reasons is, what about that collateral loss of life? the other is, if you kill them, you can't question them. >> as mitchell defends his role in the torture program, the american psychological association has launched a review to determine whether its leadership colluded with the u.s. government. the apa's probe was prompted by revelations in the new book, "pay any price: greed, power, and endless war," by pulitzer prize-winning "new york times" investigative reporter james risen. the book reveals how after the abu ghraib torture scandal, the apa formed a task force that

enabled the continued role of psychologists in the torture program. one apa official wrote an email expressing gratitude to an intelligence official for influencing the decision, saying -- "your views were well represented by the very carefully selected task force members." >> there has been a deep division within the americans psychological associations policy on interrogations for years. unlike the american medical ,ssociation and the smaller apa the american psychological association, which is the largest association of psychologists in the world, never prohibited its members from being involved in interrogations. we're joined right now by two guests. we're going first to steven reisner, founding member of the coalition for an ethical psychology and psychological ethics advisor to physicians for human rights. his latest piece is called "cia

on the couch: why there would have been no torture without the psychologists." it is great to have you back. years ago you ran for president of the apa and are major plank was to stop involvement with torture. your campaign, along with any hundreds of psychologists within the apa, has been going on for years. you now say the torture could not have gone on without your colleagues, the psychologists? >> unfortunately, that is true. the bush of ministrations justice department -- the bush administration's justice department created a legal rationale that required the presence of psychologists and medical professionals. hand for legal cover, there had to be psychologists present. on the other hand, and even more horrifying for members of my

profession, the torture regime itself was created at the cia by these two psychologists mitchell and jessen and the department of defense psychologists were involved including the torture program and in overseeing it from the beginning to end. >> talk about the role of mitchell and jessen, these two contractors paid $81 million to come up with these tactics that were used, basically created the program. wereese two psychologists sought out by the cia because manual had found this which they called resistance manual, and a qaeda resistance manual. in it, al qaeda operatives are taught how to handle their imprisonment to not give up too much information. so someone had the idea that our own resistance trainers,

psychologist, might have something to say about that manual. this seems to have been an opportunity for mitchell and jessen. there were resistance trainers who have been part of a program to basically torture our own soldiers to try to teach them to resist. the two of them got the manual and wrote about it, and they claimed that they had special expertise because of their resistance training to break the resistance of al qaeda members. >> and talk about how and theant they were response by the american psychological association am a to what they were doing. it wasn't just the two of them. they started the program. they got tens of millions of dollars for it. they created this torture program and justified it. they did the assessment of the prisoners, to the torture itself, they did the evaluation of how worth -- how will the torture word. her self-promotion and level of

--erest is her readiness harvard this. it started a virus of overseeing and directing enhanced interrogations. and what started very early on is the professional -- the american psychological association decided it was going to -- going to do its part by bringing researchers together with operatives to make those interrogations more effective on the one hand and a find a way to permit psychologist to be present according to -- by changing its ethical policy on the other. >> let's go to vice news, go back to the interview it's one of the two psychologists who cia's program,he james mitchell was asked of the so-called eit's, enhanced interrogation techniques, or designed to get actionable intelligence. making a bad cop that was

bad enough that the person was engaged with the good cop. i would be stunned if they found any kind of evidence to suggest as they were being applied, yielded actionable intelligence. >> that is james mitchell, architect of the tactics used and the cia torture program speaking to vice news. we're going to be joined by alfred mccoy, professor of history at the university of wisconsin, madison, the author of "a question of torture: cia , interrogation, from the cold war to the war on terror" and "torture and impunity: the u.s. doctrine of coercive interrogation." professor, can you talk about the role of mitchell and jessen in this program? >> they were the latest in a long history of american and canadian psychologists helping them design the interrogation protocols. this is an extra nearly long history that goes back to 1951

-- extraordinarily long history that goes back to 1951. they set out to crack the code of human consciousness and they worked with a very famous canadian psychologist. he conducted a series of experiments from 1951 to 1954 that discovered the basic concept of sensory deprivation or disorientation, which when you read this in the senate report, that is the core of the cia's tactics. these were originally developed for offensive uses, for us to break down captured soviet spies. pilots 1955, some 30 returned as prisoners of four from north korea. they have been tortured. they gave statements, some of them on radio beijing, allegedly falsely the u.s. had engaged in german warfare. on of the pilots was put trial and court-martialed. at the end of this very sad soccer, president eisenhower

ordered that all-american military personnel at risk of capture by the enemy should be conditioned to resist torture. and this was the origin in the u.s. air force of the survival, evasion, escape, resistance using thewhich was psychological torture techniques , flipping them and using them defensively to train our personnel to resist enemy interrogation. during the long years of the cold war, the cia propagated the offensive techniques among our allies worldwide. the phoenix program in south vietnam. we trained latin american militaries. as the cold war wound up in the 1980's, the cia did review and repeated of the doctrine, developed a policy of not using coercive techniques. the defense department recalled the training manuals from latin american militaries under dick cheney. these manuals were destroyed and

it was over. when 9/11 struck, the only place where these techniques resided within the bowels of the u.s. seraucracy was in the doctrine. it is quite logical the cia turned a former u.s. air force cere trainers and got them to reverse engineer the defensive doctrine into an offensive doctrine using these techniques against al qaeda and terror suspects. barkn you tell us what to -- qubark is? >> it was the cia's decade research into the psychological torture techniques. developsat work that disorientation and then parallel ark done by two researchers criminal medical school, found the kgb's most effective torture technique was not brutal being

but self-inflicted pain. and these two basic doctrines ine encoded into the manual 1963. forrk was the crypto map itself. the real title is the cia's counterintelligence interrogation manual. that manual and those techniques were propagated worldwide for the next 30 years among u.s. allies in latin america, the middle east, north africa, iran, and particularly south vietnam. >> were going to take a break and then come back to this discussion. in our last segment, we're going to be talking with former senator mike gravel, calling on colorado outgoing senator mark udall to read into the congressional record the full senate intelligence committee report on cia's involvement with torture. before we do that, we have lots to cover with professor alfred mccoy at the university of

wisconsin, madison and dr. steven reisner. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. our guests are professor alfred , who and steven reisner formerly ran for president of the mac and psychological association. he is the founding member of the coalition for ethical psychology. i want to turn to a part of 2008 democracy now broadcast from san francisco. on a vote by the american psychological association's council of representatives to reject a proposal to ban psychologists from participating in interrogation at guantánamo bay and elsewhere. this meeting in san francisco at this time was incredibly

contentious. many apa members wanted to reject the resolution, even though it was about to be reproved. -- approved. one by one, they took to the stage to voice their outrage. >> i am just another psychologist who thinks a moral issue of our time has landed at our doorstep. we have made an enormous mistake and i think it is not only did we do the wrong thing morally, we did not act in our best interests. theme now standing against at an association, the american medical association, the british psychological society -- numerous human rights organizations, the u.n., the council of europe, this detention and interrogation technology is going to go down. and once it goes down, we will find that we have secured the best cabin on the titanic.

thank you. practiceprivate in san francisco. i want to propose a conflict we have. it is like we are indebted in the military. like journalist, we are embedded in the war. >> not long after the townhall meeting have begun, the public affairs officer approached democracy now told us to stop filming, that we had passed our time limit. i got on the microphone and told people what was happening. told that reporters are only allowed to record for 10 minutes and the apa said they will call security on his now because we're going to be recording for more than 10 minutes. was wondering if there could be any sense of the meeting or rationale, since this is a town hall meeting, for not being allowed to record for more than 10 minutes? [applause]

>> can we vote to allow recording of the townhall meeting? >> yes. >> can we vote to allow recording? >> we want the press to witness this. >> can everyone who approves at allowing recording, please raise your hand? >> ok, folks, the recording will continue through the session. [applause] continuedh that, we taken the townhall meeting. apa members were outspoken about their concerns. criticizing the apa leadership for not bringing the issue of interrogations to the forefront. >> why are we being secretive? i understand why the cia needs to be secretive. [applause] someone from apa

leadership to explain the rationale, why they thought a town meeting like this should be cut off, the press should be excluded after 10 minutes? i would really like to know. that is my problem. where is the leadership coming from? a meeting of the mac and psychological association. it was in 2007. for this kind of speak out, at the formal meeting, psychologist stood on the dais before the standing room crowd at the annual apa meeting. this came two years after she participated in an apa panel then as the pens task force concluded psychologist working in interrogations play "valuable and ethical role" and she criticized the findings and make up of the panel. >> highly placed in the department of defense as contractors and military

officers. when was the commander of all military psychologists. their position on two key items of controversy in the report were predetermined by their dod employment. these key items were the permissive definition of torture in u.s. law versus the definition and international law. in the second, participation in military psychologists and interrogation settings versus nonparticipation. [indiscernible] >> that was a psychologist jean maria arrigo. s tasks part of the pen force. the original whistleblower on this report that is on this committee that is now being cited with james risen reporting on the e-mails that came out

around this. steven reisner, if you could talk more about her role in what has now been revealed about this critical pens meeting. speaking of secrecy, arrigo talked about her natural tendency was to begin taking notes. she was invited to be on this panel. another member of the panel turned to her and said, you will put your notes down now. >> is probably the only task force in apa history where the members were forbidden from taking notes. maria was a part of this task force because she is a oral historian in the military and national security intelligence. but she suspected rather quickly that the task force had been brought together for some purpose that wasn't communicated to all the members, but had only been understood by the military connected members.

as she was sworn to secrecy. and she kept that secrecy pretty much until she had a conversation with myself and a few other of us who are questioning the task force. i mentioned to her that i had just learned that the head of the apa practice director was married to a biscuit in guantánamo -- >> a biscuit? >> behavioral science consultant. they oversaw interrogations that were part of the role, the essential role that psychologists played in this whole process. i had mentioned that because general kiley is a guest at that convention and he it mentioned that to a group of us. ria kind of turned white and said one of the secrets i was asked to keep was that russ newman was a guiding force at that task force.

we did not know his wife was a biscuit at guantánamo. she said now that this is revealed that was basically duped, i'm going to reveal all that took place at that meeting because i think that meeting -- it was a duplicitous meeting that the apa was colluding with the cia and the pentagon. it turns out that she was very pressured because jim risen's book gives us the smoking gun to validate what jean maria suspected at the time. >> the ap is now probing this task force that worked with the cia. why do you think they would have done this in the first place? >> probe? >> why they would have colluded with the cia to enable the program? >> we have all been wondering about that. the american psychological association has deep long-standing connections with anddepartment of defense

intelligence agencies. in fact, the department of defense was the first government agency to really recognize the important roles that psychologist played. a huge number of psychologists worked for the department of defense at the v.a.'s and the military itself. but some key members of the mac and psychological association governance have always had ties to military contracts. their members of the governance -- there are members of the governance who run an organization which has is self tens of millions of dollars of pentagon contracts to supply psychological expertise to the pentagon. so there is all kinds of unfortunate overlap and conflicts of interest that seem to press the apa to support military policy uncritically and sometimes perhaps behind the scenes. james at thatry

meeting, who is now dean at wayne state in detroit of the, to psychologist at guantánamo and a member of the apa governing board, said at the meeting, defending military psychologists said they held make interrogations safe, ethical, and legal and cited instances where psychologists allegedly intervened to stop abuse. he said if we remove psychologist from these facilities, people are going to die. but then dr. lori magner got up, , and said,hologist why are people dying of the was military is in charged dust is in charge? the may put the question to professor al mccoy. apa whole debate within the and the role of psychologists, as you see it? >> amy, we can put this in a wider context. psychologists are critical, but there could ago because psychological torture is in

effect enshrined within the u.s. law. when the united states finally ratified the convention against torture in 1994, we did so subject to certain known astions reservations. basically, the four reservations that we introduced modified our approval, our ratification of the convention everything in it except. we redefined the human definition of what torture was -- you and definition of torture was, extreme pain, and called it prolonged mental harm. that for an act to rise to the level of torture it had to harm. prolonged mental those three words are critical. first of all, mental. that meant u.s. was effectively splitting the u.n. convention down the middle.

they barred both physical and psychological torture. we were saying, we accept the ban on physical torture, but we are exempting the ban on psychological torture. and we're qualifying that band because in order for an act to rise to the level of torture of psychological torture, it has to inflict prolonged mental harm upon the victim. what is prolonged? how long is prolonged? that is not defined. in what constitutes harm? that is another huge loophole. that open the door for the notorious memo by the office of say forunsel to something to rise to the level of harm, the pain must be sufficient or equivalent to organ failure. in order -- in other words, psychological torture of to but not including death is legally acceptable in u.s. law. those words have been replicated

verbatim in the u.s. work act of 1996 -- war crimes act of 1996, the military commissions act 2006, verbatim. those paragraphs. it is that which creates the opening for psychologists like mitchell and jessen to participate in these programs. and that in effect means these acts, which are outrageous and we now consider to be torture, are in fact can be, if you will, can be exempted from the rule of law. it is a problem united states has been so reliant on psychological torture for so long that it has become embedded not only in bureaucracy professional practice like the military psychologists that work for the defense department, but also in u.s. law. it is deeply embedded in our society. >> i was talking about larry james, he is at right state in dayton, ohio. i just needed to make a correction. >> back to the history you're

talking about, this raises an important point. a common narrative it is the bush administration that impose torture, but you are saying this has been enshrined in policy for a long time. >> yes. i mean, again, going back to the start of this whole process, the united states responded to the idea the soviets had cracked the code of human conscience miss, that they had somehow had the thecity to produce manchurian candidate they could program in assassin. we reacted to this by using psychologists to develop our own offensive doctrine of psychological torture. again, the cia disseminated this among our allies worldwide for 30 years throughout the cold war. this became encoded in the u.s. military through the cere training. when that was over and it was time for serious structural

reforms, those reforms took lace. they would not torture anymore. they said it was counterproductive. the defense department recalled the manuals. the manuals were published in the was press in 1997. it seemed to be all over except the inclination, the reliance, the belief in the faith and efficacy of psychological embeddedas so deeply in the bureaucracy that our reflects upon ratification of the u.n. convention, which, by the way, took an extraordinarily long time from six or seven years after the rest of the world have ratified the convention, by the time we did it, we did it in a way that protected -- reserve our right to engage in the psychological torture practices. indeed, since then, we have conducted ourselves in activities that are a clear violation of the u.n. convention. the reflex to torture, the sense

of empowerment, the idea that we can define testify our own law for reasons of national security -- defy our own law for reasons of national security, is a long history. >> on sunday, dick cheney said he would do it all again. he was speaking on "meet the press." trucks with respect to trying to define that as torture, i come back to the proposition torture was what the al qaeda terrorists did to 3000 americans on 9/11. there's no comparison between that and what we did. it worked. it worked for 13 years. we have avoided another mass casualty against the united states. we captured bin laden and an awful lot of the senior guys of al qaeda who are responsible for that attack on 9/11. i would do it again in a minute. >> that is dick cheney. the senate intelligence committee report that came out last week, at least the summary, the full thousands of pages has

detailed the torture. for andied as a result example after being kept in the cold. people being kept up or something like 180 hours, buzzing power drills but against their head, don't repeatedly in tanks of ice water. at least 26 people subjected to torture including one who froze to death. your response, professor mccoy, to vice president cheney saying he would do it again? dick cheney has been a forceful advocate for the enhanced interrogation techniques. he is been unapologetic. he has given dozens of interviews over the years. in fact, dick cheney is the leading voice for those in the intelligence community that are

trying to win impunity for the violations of law and international conventions. as a result of the senate report, we are now in what i call the fifth and final stage of a decade-long struggle of the torture issue. it decade-long struggle for impunity. and the united states, just like other nations that have emerged from these sad practices at the end of the cold war, has been going through a five stage process of impunity. when the abu ghraib photographs were released in april 2004, secretary of defense donald rumsfeld blamed it on the so-called bad apples. that is the first reflex, blame the bad apples. then dick cheney and others right away began saying it was imperative for national security. we had to do it for reasons of safety. that is the second stage of impunity. then when president obama came into office in april 2009, he

visited cia headquarters and brought us to the third stage of impunity by saying the past was indeed unfortunate am a but it was time to move forward together. in other words, national unity means we can't investigate this troubled past. then we hit stage four, which essentially exoneration for the perpetrators and the powerful that order them to commit these acts. that occurred, ironically, after the death of osama bin laden in chorus1 when in acapella rose on the media and said that these enhanced interrogation techniques led us to osama bin laden. they kept us safe. to use to cheney words, they say thousands of lives, tens of thousands of lives. at that point, the u.s. justice department terminated its investigation of nearly 100 cia

excesses that were potentially crimes in the perpetrators had one exoneration. now what they're fighting for is not just exoneration, they want vinification before the bar of history. that is critical in a couple of ways. first of all, if they win the fight and say these techniques were first of all not torture and second of all they kept us save, they will then be exempt from civil litigation by the victims, second of all to possibly u.s. colonel investigations to international arrest should they travel abroad, and more importantly in terms of policy, that means this doctrine will remain in the presidential toolkit so that the future president can set aside president obama's restrictions on these methods and torture again. and that is why this is a desperate and very serious battle over impunity. and that is why the senate committee's report is so important. up to this point, the

perpetrators and their powerful were winning the debate. now, in fact, the debate has shifted its tone and looking to me like it is a much more neutral, much more positive outcome. >> steven reisner, in the apa, an investigation is being done within the apa. what will make a different from thatens report committee was made of years ago, majority of the people involved with the interrogations? >> what makes this different is the risen book exposed the collusion, apparent collusion between the apa and the cia and perhaps the dod. an independent investigator has been hired to take a look at all documents at the apa, to look at all of the questions that we dissidents at the apa have raised and will do a full and thorough independent investigation. and i agree with dr. mccoy that we have to enshrine into law

that torture has to be made illegal, but we also have to close that one place that has permitted torture, which has to do with health professionals and doctors and psychologists. and i'm hoping the results of force,vestigation will will press the apa to once and for all prohibit psychologists from being involved in any fromive interrogations here on in. >> we have to leave it there. >> thank you steven reisner, , founding member of the coalition for an ethical psychology and psychological ethics advisor to physicians for human rights. and thank you professor mccourt, author of "a question of , torture: cia interrogation, from the cold war to the war on terror" and "torture and impunity: the u.s. doctrine of coercive interrogation." when we come back, former senator mike gravel is calling on another senator, chris editor, mark udall, to read the senate intelligence committee

full report into the congressional record. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> on the senate floor last week, outgoing democratic senator mark udall called for a purge of top cia officials implicated in the torture program and cover-up, including current director john brennan. in stark language, udall accused the cia of lying. 2 the cia has long -- july overseers of the public, destroyed and try to hold back evidence, spied on the senate, made. charges against our staff, and lied about torture and the results of torture. and no one has been held to account. they are right now people serving and high-level positions at the agency approved, directed, or committed acts related to the cia's detention and interrogation program.

it is bad enough not to prosecute these officials, but to reward or promote them and risk the integrity of the u.s. government to protect them is encumbrance of all. principle. the president needs to purge his a ministration of high-level officials who were instrumental to the development and running of this program. >> as senator udall urges president obama to fire john brennan, udall himself faces calls to take action of his own. the senate findings released last week amount to only a fraction of the full report -- 480 heavily redacted pages out of more than 6,000 pages total. the white house has blocked release of the full report so far, backing the cia's wishes. that's sparked demands that udall invoke a rarely used congressional privilege and make the report public. using the absolute free speech rights for members of congress, udall could read the torture report into the congressional record. and with his term about to expire after losing re-election,

udall has not ruled that out, saying he will "keep all options on the table." >> there is a precedent for udall to enter the torture report into the public record. in 1971, after the "new york times" published portions of the pentagon papers, the nixon administration tried to block the release of further details. but a junior senator from alaska named mike gravel insisted the public had a right to know the truth behind the war. he then read more than 4,000 pages of the 7,000 page document into the senate record. welcome and not exactly read. you did, though, put them into the congressional record. senator gravel spoke to the media about his decision. into possession of these papers, i looked around and nobody in government had done anything. you looking being done in government was an effort to stifle and hide this stuff. done wasly thing being

an effort to stifle and hide the stuff. somebody in government has got to have the same resolve, the same feelings for stopping the killings as ellsberg did, as the the new yorkas " times did." bureaucrats, the people we despair so often. they were not elected officials, they were bureaucrats. i have.h less risk than the risk i have is being exposed in the senate. we have right now, these documents. we have them under the most stringent circumstances imaginable. president, mr. congressman, the people must know the full story of what has occurred over

the past 20 years within their government. the story is a terrible one. it is replete with duplicity, connivance against the public and public officials. i know of nothing in our history to equal it for extensive failure and extent of loss in all aspects of the term. >> that is senator mike gravel in 1971, taking advantage of congressional privilege to disclose the contents of the pentagon papers that were then kept secret. well today, four decades later, former senator mike gravel is among those calling on senator mark udall to follow in his footsteps and enter the full senate report on cia torture into the congressional record. former senator mike gravel joins us now from san francisco. he is a former u.s. senator for alaska, serving from 1969 to 1981. welcome to democracy now!

vel, you putting this into record, though "the times" have reported an "the post" had reported on the pentagon papers, that the full pentagon papers are now available to the public. can you talk about what you're asking senator udall to do now as he leaves the senate, having been defeated in colorado? >> well, he may have the opportunity of getting his hands on the full report. she doesn't have to read into the senate record. it is already in the senate record because it is a record of committee. you don't have to duplicate that. yesterday's i the speech and debate clause, take this record of 6000 pages, put a press release describing why he is doing it and release it to the public. it is that simple. most members of congress,

unfortunately, don't fully understand that there are three functions that representatives have to inform. one is to inform the public. two is to legislate entry is to have oversight. what we have with the release of this document, the summary, is an oversight. they conducted oversight and the release of to the public. george washington, jefferson, they all felt the most important function of representation was to inform the people as to what their government is doing. the feinstein all committee has done thus far, but we need to see the entire record so that it could be probed. i will give you an example. i'm very concerned about the egregious corruption that has brought about the incarceration

sadiki. just turning show up -- does her name show up? -- shebeen put in jail suffered five years of rendition at the hands of the american government and the pakistani government who was paid off with bonuses for that. amy, let me touch upon the arguments that are made with respect to the report that has a ready been released. and that is very simply, this is partisan. it is not partisan. the study began in the committee with both the democrats and republicans. but when the republican leadership began to see what was unfolding, well, they withdrew their staff people working on the documents. now, what are the documents? and this goes to the issue,

well, they did not interview us. you're going to interview these people? do you think they're going to to you the truth? these are internal e-mails, communications that really indict themselves in the wrongdoing. and that is what the documents show. about thewe talk partisanship, it is not the partisanship. this is not democratic. this is a simple, straightforward under the constitution reporting to the american people what the government has done. and the dialogue that just took place before i came on just shows the level of debasement of the american morality that has taken place over the years with -- we're not talking about people off the street doing this, we are talking about elites that are deeply involved with the military debasing our

morality. and then the comment is, well, there's no reaction from the mac and people. there's no way for the people to react until election day. and by that time, it is too confused. >> senator mike gravel, going back to 1971 under decision to speak out, i imagine you were under pressure to not take the action that you did. what factored into your decision or how did you prepare? to prepare. have when a was 23 years old, was a top-secret control officer in the communications intelligence service. back then, we wiretapped and opened people's male wantonly. this was in europe. move forward, i'm now 42 years old -- in the united states senate. nixon sends over the pentagon papers to the senate under armed guard and a senator, no staff members allowed, but a senator can't go and even taking notes.

at 42 in the united states senator, i can't do that but when i was 23, i could do that wantonly. arehows you how silly we trapped in this believable culture of secrecy that is in the military and has permeated through the rest of our culture. to wrap here, but we will do part two with you and will post it online at democracynow.org. udall former u.s. senator for as hisa, best known release of the pentagon papers. he is calling on mark udall to get the senate intelligence committees 4000 pages into the congressional record. that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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